The down side of hybrid vehicles
September 17, 2009 by By email
Filed under Hybrid Vehicles
I would really like to a drive hybrid car, however I have been told there are lots of bad things about hybrid vehicles.
Some folks told me that you can’t sell your hybrid car after it has been used for a while, and they reckon the battery becomes useless after just a few years. And what is more, it costs BIG money to replace the battery.
After all is said and done, should I still buy a Toyota Prius or a Honda Civic in order to save gas?
If you are worried about the batteries, the manufacturer has to warranty them for a specific number of years, depending on where you live. In California it is 10 years, so as long as you are buying new, batteries are not an issue. Hybrids cost more, and there fuel economy isn’t really that much better than their traditional drivetrain relatives. If you compare cars with similar horsepower and of similar size, hybrids really only average about 5-10% better gas mileage in the real world. If something does go wrong that is not covered under a warranty, it can be costly, especially on a prius, because the hybrid systems are integrated into almost every other system in the vehicle. Environmentally speaking, they do leave a somewhat smaller carbon foot print than conventionally powered vehicles, but not by much since emissions are directly related to gas mileage. If you live in a country where compact cars are powered by diesels, then that should be where you look, since they are capable of getting 10-15% better mileage than hybrids in real world tests. Unfortunately, in the U.S. people still look at diesels as dirty noisy and slow, so they are available in only a handful of states, and generally not the models that are really fuel efficient. If I were you, I would just go with a reliable gas powered vehicle until someone finally comes out with a plug-in hybrid, then they will be worth buying.
They are more expensive to buy and maintain. I do not think it will always be that way. Once they start to be used more and more the price of owning it and using it will go down. I think it is important that people move away from using gas and grateful for pioneers like yourself to get out there and make the transition happen. I do not own a car, but I will be buying a hybrid vehicle when it comes time to buy one.
The down side is it is more expensive to own. Due to the large upfront premium, battery, and electric motor that won’t last forever. Also they get less mileage than advertised. The upside, you are polluting less and don’t have to buy as much gas, that just keeps going up and up. People always seem to purchase based on cost, but harm to humanity is more important. Buy because you want to help with a transition to pollution free transportation, not because it makes economic sense.
My definition of its operation is this: While driving in the city the engine uses the gasoline fuel so the electric drive is idle. On the highway the car is by the electric drive .At this point the electric drive is active hence charging the batteries. So if someone lives far from work this kind of car is suitable.Less gas is consumed.The electric drive is always active and charging the batteries.
Prius is a good brand.Japanese thinking in fuel economy. The batts are expensive!!! Still economic on gas compared with conventionals. NB: If resale value is bad,then why not lease one.If it possible!! Thanks.
Hi,
wow, lots of misinformation and non-information, let’s stick to facts so you can make an informed decision
NEW- I’m not a salesman, I’m a high school teacher, formerly a college professor, hence the name.
And to anyone who wants to dispute my information or rant, please at least check your facts before posting.
All of the things you mention are myths:
- Not being able to sell one after a few years (Prius, for example, have the highest resale after five years of any vehicle after the Mini Cooper).
- There has never been an owner who has paid to replace a nickel metal hydride (NiMH) hybrid battery because of defects or failure in any Toyota hybrid in the nine, almost ten, years they have been on sale in the US.
There have been NiMH replaced due to accidents or owner abuse or modification (one guy drilled a screw into his NiMH stack trying to install a big sub-woofer in the back).
- The entire NiMH battery in the Prius costs $2985.13 for either generation, even the Highlander Hybrid’s entire NiMH costs less than $5000. Call your local Toyota dealer and ask to speak to the parts department.
- The internal combustion engine (ICE) actually doesn’t run continuously and it is a standard Toyota ICE in every hybrid they make, they are just tweaked slightly for even higher efficiency.
- And in case people are thinking of the electric generator motors used in the hybrid systems, an electric motor will long outlast an ICE because an electric motor essentially has one moving part and does not undergo the wear and tear of an ICE.
- Consumer Reports, in their April 2008 auto issue, named the Prius as the number one vehicle in owner satisfaction for the fourth year in a row, 92% of all owners would either buy another or recommend one for purchase.
- Consumer Reports also said the Prius is the most trouble free family vehicle and returns the highest mpg (44) of any vehicle they test, including the Civic Hybrid, Focus, Aveo, Fit, or any other
- The Prius is also Consumer Reports most "green" vehicle, figuring in not only production, but also operation and fuel use.
One simple proof of all this is the common sense one.
Common sense says that if these things were failing, it would be all over the mainstream news, especially with gas costing what it does and people paying so much attention to hybrids.
Forget what the ranters prattle on about in chat rooms and blogs, they cannot back up their stories with real facts.
Here’s a few examples:
Hybrids like the Prius use regular gas, higher octane is a waste of money.
A Prius costs .11 cents a mile to maintain for each 100,000 miles. That .11 cents includes tires, gas at $3.50 a gallon, oil changes and all regularly scheduled maintenance at a Toyota dealership.
A Prius (or Camry Hybrid or Highlander Hybrid) actually has less parts and less moving parts than a standard vehicle, so there is less to repair or replace.
The .11 cents per mile maintenance cost of a Prius does not include insurance, bank interest, or the cost of the vehicle and the options, because all of those can vary based on each owner’s situation. Add them to the .11 cents per mile amount.
A Prius will maintain 51-53 average if driven properly.
This means doubling your usual stopping distance and taking your foot off the accelerator at that double distance to shut down the ICE sooner when coming to a stop and then pressing the brake at your normal stopping distance gently to the stop.
Accelerate like there is a egg under the accelerator pedal and you’re trying to roll the egg out, not make omelets. In other words, driving defensively and learning to get the most out of the hybrid drivetrain.
As far as the cost to operate a Prius over 100,000 miles:
- There is no steering belt or steering pump, the system is electronic and uses electric motors. There is no belt to wear and no pump to lose fluid out of (ever hear a car squeal when it goes around a corner? that’s the belt or pump going bad) No cost there.
- There is no accelerator cable or cable linkage, once again, it is electronic. So there is no loss of acceleration over time from cable stretch and wear like on a standard vehicle. No cost there.
- The brake pads should never need to be replaced, they are hardly used due to the regenerative braking system. Look up pictures on the net of Prius with no appreciable wear on the brake pads. One great example is an owner who thought to take pictures of his Prius’ brake pads at 8,000 miles and then again at 105,000 miles. The pads were measured with calipers and there was no appreciable wear after 97,000 miles. No cost there.
- You never touch the nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery or the hybrid system, it is self-regulating. No cost there.
- The gas engine is not tuned up for 100,000 miles. At even 15,000 miles per year, that’s about seven years. And then…
- four spark plugs run $12.00 each, four is $48.00 (the wires aren’t replaced and there are no distributors because each cylinder has a direct injection module and they are not replaced)
- coolant is $15.50 a gallon and you need two gallons, or $31.00 (if you live in an extremely hot or cold climate, you might need to change the coolant 2X in 100,000 miles so figure $62.00 there)
- air filters are $18.00 for the engine and $25.00 for the cabin and are replaced every 15,000 miles. So over 100,000 miles, we’ll go high and say 7 sets of air filters at $301.00.
- at 100,000 miles, inspect the wiring, change the oil (might as well, since you’re there) lube, inspect and flush the brake lines, flush the coolant if necessary. It runs about $225.00, which includes parts.
- the sealed, continuously variable transmission fluid is not changed until 90,000 miles, about $140.00
- The OEM (Original Equipment from the Manufacturer) Goodyear Integrity’s are about $118.00 each, installed. The originals are low-rolling resistance, specialty tires, just like a truck or sports car. They will last about 35,000 or so. Three sets of 4 OEM tires- over 105,000 miles- will run $1376.00 installed (3 sets of 4 at $118.00 each = $1376.00).
- Oil and filter changes every 3000 miles and tire rotations every 6000 miles, just like any other vehicle. Oil changes are about $26.00 and tire rotations are about $18.00, or about $884.00 for oil changes and $306.00 for rotations over 100,000 miles
So, over 100,000 miles, for regular service, a Prius should run about $3342.00, rounded to $3400.00, or about .034 cents per mile.
All of my service and parts amounts come from a local Toyota dealership (not the corner cheapy lube), and do not figure in any kind of promotions, coupons, or discounts. I called on 4/11/08.
We’ll say gas in a Prius at $3.50 a gallon will run about $7,000 over 100,000 miles, or about .07 cents per mile (100,000 miles / 50 mpg (I get 51.7 mpg currently as an average, city and highway, auto temp w/air and stereo on) = 2000 gallons of gas X $3.50 a gallon = $7,000).
So a Prius will run about $11000 ($3400 + $7000), or .11 cents per mile, to operate over 100,000 miles.
Any vehicle you are considering should be put to this kind of scrutiny. A vehicle is a major investment and it will cost you money to run properly. Please print this info out and use it to compare any vehicles by calling your local dealership and asking the parts and service departments what is involved in maintenance over 100,000 miles.
As far as the energy and materials for the NiMH batteries go:
Our federal government has tested NiMH batteries from the Prius and discovered they still maintain 90% of their capacity after 100,000 miles. Look up the testing at the DOE website.
And the current record is over 360,000 miles on a Prius using the original NiMH battery and hybrid system. Many Prius are used as taxis and also by the State of New York and Colorado as state municipal vehicles racking up 100,000-200,000 miles without issue on a regular basis. Those are not typos, anything else you may have seen is an urban myth.
The entire battery, just like almost every bit of those vehicles, is completely recyclable.
Obviously, there will be some breakdown eventually, but one of the great things about the Prius system, for example, is the NiMH battery is composed of 36 individual cells. If one cell goes bad, it can be replaced and the remainder stay. That is what’s happened when Toyota has torture tested the Prius in Alaska and Death Valley.
As far as the supposed "environmental impact" of the NiMH batteries in the Toyota and Lexus hybrids…
The plant in Sudbury where Toyota buys approximately 1.5% of the plant’s annual nickel output can be seen using this Google maps address:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&la...
Sudbury, Ontario is called the mining capital of the world for good reason.
The Sudbury plant has been in continuous operation since the rock was blasted to make way for the Canadian Pacific Railway in 1883.
That means that nickel has been mined there for the last 125 years. The Prius has been on the road since 1998. What about all the environmental damage done for the 115 years before the Prius ever came along?
So, there are some of the techie details, but the bottom line is the cost will be higher for a Prius, but you are getting more vehicle. It’s just like buying an Accord instead of a Civic or a Camry instead of a Corolla.